I'm James, James Chisholm. I'm one of the cofounders of ExperiencePoint, and I'm joined by a number of VPs on this call, including Vanessa, who is going to be our production manager just to ensure things are run really smoothly today. If you've got a tech question or a challenge, please just, ping Vanessa in the chat channel there. First off, I wanna thank you for coming today. This this community, you, are are why we exist. And, as you know, our team, we work we work pretty hard to design and and develop and support these hands on experiential workshops that we can put in your hands so that you can deliver incredible learning experiences for your participants, whether they be colleagues or clients or students. And our workshops, well, I hope they started something pretty good, but they grow into something exceptional based on your feedback, based on your input, and based on the innovative ways in which you use them to meet different learner needs. And so we're really excited to create this opportunity today to connect so that we can all learn from one another. This EP Talks format that we're running today, it's new, and it's in response to an idea and a need that we heard coming out of this community after our last community webinar last fall. And so we're keen to try this out and to iterate based on your experience today. So we'll get some feedback, hopefully, at the end of the day today from you folks, from everybody here. Over the next hour, we're gonna do three things. We're gonna start with a quick set of five minute talks from four fellow facilitators, four amazing facilitators who have generously offered to share some of their experiences. Then we're gonna head into breakouts to connect in small groups, meet some new folks, discuss what we heard, and share some of our own experiences with one another. And then we're gonna come back and do a quick debrief and and and wrap by the top of the hour here. So sound good? Are we ready to roll? Okay. Let's meet our speakers today. In reverse order here, Jason Lewis, facilitator, consultant, and coach at Shift Facilitation. Hey, Jason. Jason specializes in change management, leadership development, persuasion, and innovation. Jason's short talk today is called no struggle, no learning, how to get people to enjoy suffering for knowledge. Frank Miller is the director of executive and corporate education at the Ted Rogers School of Management in Toronto, where he brings a powerful combo of deep industry expertise and academic experience. Frank's talk today is called spark the context. Laura Rojo is a global educator, adjunct professor, and consultant with over twenty years experience in education and industry, where she's led innovation change and transformation projects in both public and private organizations. Laura's talk is designing impactful change management programs with simulations at the heart. And Lyle Someroden is a builder of innovation and change capability. Lyle has held senior roles in various industries, bringing human centered tools and techniques to help people think differently, to see new opportunities, and shape the future. We're gonna kick things off today with Lyle's talk, Sparking Design Sprints. Over to you, Lyle. Thanks, James. Much appreciated. Well, hello, everyone. I wanted to, relay a bit of a story to you all about using the Spark by Experience Point product, and using it a bit differently than maybe how it was initially kind of envisioned for use. Now, for those of you that aren't familiar with Spark, Spark episodes are these kind of interactive virtual almost think of them as, like, micro learning segments that are focused on kind of reinforcing some of the, like, fundamental mindsets or tools of either innovation or change. And each episode is kind of focused on a very single specific skill. Recently, I was doing some work with a multinational energy company, and one of their divisions had a need to start kind of optimizing and improving their base operations. Not an unfamiliar challenge to probably many industries and obviously lots of the situations that all of you are probably encountering with your clients and within your own organizations. Over the course of about four weeks, we took about forty mid level leaders through eight spark episodes to introduce them to some of the fundamental kind of mindsets and approaches that innovators utilize when they develop you know, winning solutions. We hosted, like, two thirty minute microlearning sessions each week over the course of a four week period. Now, folks, for these participants, this was their first foray into design thinking. So we weren't trying to reinforce concepts here. We were actually using Spark as a way to introduce new methods for how they could solve some of their problems and how they could approach their work very differently than maybe how they were approaching it to that point. Now some of the first episodes that we delivered were really focused on helping those leaders try to understand how to frame their operational challenges or framing their kind of operational problems that they were encountering. Specifically, Houston We Have a Problem and the Goldilocks Principle were some episodes that we that that focus on problem framing and setting direction. Now, after we kind of took them through those episodes, we tasked each of these leaders to really develop kind of a couple how might we challenge statements that were within their kind of operational responsibilities and to work kind of with their fellow leaders in triads offline to kind of apply the skills that were taught in these episodes. The skills that were taught are skills like ensuring that their challenge statements are user focused, you know, specifying a desired user benefit, that their challenges were right sized. And so we we used an existing kind of leaders channel within their Microsoft Teams environment so that each leader could kind of publish their how might we challenges so that other leaders that were going through this program with us could kind of comment and build upon the work of their peers. And this leader dialog and this kind of engagement that leaders were having offline really highlighted some challenge areas that were really of common interest across some of the portfolios. And it actually triggered the approval of a few design sprints to kind of further unpack some of these important challenge areas that the leaders were highlighting. We ended up using experience points impact design spend product to kind of create some of these early prototypes of some potential solutions to some of these operational challenges that they were facing. This archive, that these leaders created of their operational challenges, it was also a really important kind of document and a source of truth that we kind of kept referring leaders back to while they continued on their spark journey. As we introduce new skills in each spark episode, right, we asked each leader to kind of apply that skill to their own frame challenges. So So we were essentially almost helping each leader kind of create the beginnings of a bit of a creative brief that they could use with their teams offline to kind of advance ways of working and improve their base operations. So here's my big takeaway for all of you from this story. Right? Don't just look at experience point products and assume that the great people at experience point have described every possible use case for their products. You know, folks, my kids, I've got a six year old and a nine year old at home right now, and they're really big into LEGO bricks. I stepped on a few this morning. And I I like to think of EP products as Lego bricks. Right? I try when I'm using them with my clients, I try to stack them and restock them and and repurpose them in many ways to try to help address my client's biggest pain points. You know the old saying, right? There is no fire without a spark. And so for this client, right, spark being used as an introductory tool, not a reinforcing tool, and allowed them to start to kind of appreciate and expose them to the benefits of design thinking so they could start to create kind of small fires of improvement all across this key division and ultimately improve their base operations. Folks, enjoy the rest of the talk today. I'm gonna turn it back to James. Amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was great. Super cool. A a a great example of, listening for client needs and then constructing a solution based on LEGO pieces that we have, but some that you have as well in in in common platforms that the client has. If you have questions for Lyle or any of the speakers, please add to the chat channel. Lyle's gonna be, monitoring, and, he can pick them up on the way. We're gonna roll on to our next hop. Over to you, Laura. Thank you very much. Alright. Well, hello, everybody. Pleasure to always join the global EP community as well. My talk today can be summarized very spontaneously in just a very plain and simple but straightforward encouragement to all of you to use your toolkit. And by doing that is use, all of the whats and all of the hows you already have in your toolkits. And I'm gonna give you a couple of examples of how I've done that in the past. You hopefully spark some ideation and some brainstorming that you can then take on to your breakout rooms and and discuss with others and share further ideas about how you've used, the experience point simulations as potentially the the parting point or as a foundation to build something else, a more, comprehensive or more complex, learning experience for participants across different types of programs and profiles and so on. So let's see the slides, and I'll walk you through a couple of ideas visually. So we can move on. Yes. There there it is. So, like I said, I will talk to you about a couple of examples about how I've used, the experience point, specifically change management simulations to be very precise in the examples as the foundation to build more comprehensive programs, and take programs like Link there, because programs could be anything from a very intense half day, module on change management for certain participants all the way into a full fledged semester long change management course at a business school or at a university. And I'll talk to you about, you know, some in betweens, those two extreme examples. So let's see the next slide and maybe that helps us. So I assume, obviously, like so many of you and many other, experiences experience point facilitators, you've used the simulations in a variety of different formats and you've done multiple iterations of using them perhaps on the shortest possible iteration with a given corporate client. I'll give you examples I've used, the most simple ones, the change management experience, change simulation on half day, types of modules, on a one day module, which is still quite intense, and a two day module. Whenever it is those types of variations in length, I really just focus on the simulation. That is my product. And my product, and as you know quite well, in that sense, it gives me the what and it gives me the how. So it's giving you the content of what you're walking participants through in terms of change management, learnings and knowing, but also the what. The simulation is your methodology. So you really, have the what and how already on the table in terms of your delivery, your facilitation. I don't know, a number of different iterations with a number of different types of participants and groups, larger groups and smaller groups, executive MBA type of students in a in a educational format, corporate clients, and in company corporate training programs, and and even actually quite a few really interesting inter iterations younger students and the graduate, business administration, types of students and so on. Now that may have happened a number of times and that, obviously, any of you who has done this this number of times has already got all all those so many ideas about how to build around it, how to build more whats around it, but also more hows and really take it on to integrating other methodologies with the simulation as well. So one of the more simple ones is the one that you have there below. Is that you may use the simulation, and then if it is with a specific corporate client, for example, in that environment, what I've done multiple times is to really use everything they have learned in the participant group with the simulation to really apply to the real case, the real case of the change that is actually happening or the transformation process actually happening on that particular organization, if I'm working with a corporate client, and so on. A simulated example of that would be if you're working, for example, I've done a lot of work over the years on global management education and executive education. You would use a given case or a business case in which different teams work on that one as well. But now the interesting part comes in the next slide, actually. So let's move on to that one. So, how do you build beyond that, really? In trying to build more comprehensive courses slash modules, let's not get too caught out on on the label of that or programs, Whether the duration of that is a one week intensive or a full like, in a full fledged full semester course in an educational environment, I had to think a number of times about, okay, what are gonna be my building blocks? What other what's am I gonna add around the simulation if that if I'm gonna take the simulation as my foundation? What is gonna be the order and the flow of that, but also what are going to be the other methodologies? What goes well with you know, we're gonna do you know, we're gonna use pretty much one of the most sophisticated digital simulations that I've used, in my facilitation, which is the EP products, and it works phenomenally every time as you all know. But then how am I gonna complement that with other methodologies that may not be digital at all, some of them, but they will be complementary, and we can use the learnings that the participants have acquired through that, and and do it in a different way. Not only do something different and or learn something additional, but also learn it in a different way. So let's go to the next slide, and I'll show you a couple of examples, on courses that I build around that. So in thinking of the flow, I've done a number of different iterations, and I'm showing you only two two specific examples just for the purpose of time today. And and and then that'll trigger hopefully enough ideas for you to discuss many other, things that you may have done or are thinking of doing as well. The example of the top would be just a very quick visual of a full semester course that I've done on on a business school environment, for participants across different levels of seniority. This could be a secretary of education or even on the way down to even undergraduate business administration, students as well. In thinking of building blocks, what I thought made more of this I would say in that particular example in in one or multiple of the iterations that I did, both actually, independently and co teaching with a couple of colleagues as well and a number of occasions, was to place the simulation in the middle. And that was the foundation of the course. Now how much time you have to go through a simulation that depends on the context, etcetera. I gave it a few class sessions, obviously, and and I had the time to do that when I was playing on that more extended elastic semester long context. But you could squeeze that or extend that. As you know, the simulation is a quite an elastic product, and you can adapt that as as you need fit. But in terms of the watch I was adding, basically, I thought, well, the simulation piece has a lot of, things that have to do with the emotional dimension of change, and culture and so on, but also the rational and the cognitive dimension. So it makes a lot of sense to place, for me, it makes a lot of sense to place the personal and interpersonal dimensions first to build knowledge on that, on the participants before we did the simulation. So we did, building blocks of content around self and others, understanding self and others always in the context of change since that was the purpose and the focus of the course. What we did was multiple thesis. One of the best things that actually work, but we did a lot of work on personality types and profiling. Some people like the MBTI best. Some people like the building roles. Some people there's a lot of different examples of frameworks and models and tests that you can use, and really do do that in a very applied change management context. Right? A lot of people are actually already familiar with these tools, but not so much bringing into the change management environment. So that was was actually quite helpful for, all the groups that we went through that. Another what or another building block revolve around and I'll give you examples here because this is where you come in with your toolkit and your areas of expertise and really choose the building blocks around it. Right? In my case, that was polarity management and polarity thinking. There's a lot of, really juicy overlap between polarity management and change management. And then made a little sense. It had to do a lot with the way we think, so they build on understanding self and others and the way we think. And it was a really good building block before doing the simulation as well. After the simulation, also embedded in the simulation, you can really dedicate as much or as little time that you have that you wanted to change management theory and models. That is part of the simulation, as you know, the product quite well, but you can also take it beyond and actually do a little bit more theory. Whenever I did that block is because I was playing in a more educational, less corporate environment, and I had to dedicate a little bit more in a that academic environment I had the time. And there was more of a focus on build on on the theory part of it. So I was building beyond the EP model, into all the change management models, and we had the time to go through them and really understand them and so on. We could apply that on the next building block to multiple business cases and do that actually with other methodologies. We were building on the model and all the learnings from the simulation. We were using, like, things like the case method, super popular in the business school world and many other environments, of course. And we're basically trying to intentionally go through not only different blocks of contents, but each of those content blocks go through them with a different methodology. We have building blocks around industry insights and speakers in the course, bringing real examples from the class. And if it is an academic environment, of course, we had assessment, final projects of different ways and so on. The one below, really quickly to give you, like, one of the last ideas as well, when it was another iteration, and it went a little bit beyond that with the methodology. The one thing that I would highlight here is that I decided to introduce the legacy respect method. Now I'm building on Lyle's, Lego Lego thoughts and stepping on Lego blocks. We one of the other methodologies that I work a lot with in terms of in the consulting space, but also in the educational space is with legacy risk playing, which can be applied as a methodology to, again, a very elastic methodology, can be applied to a variety of different areas, leadership development, change management, business strategy, operations, you name it. It goes on and on and on. And it has a specific application that I've used for many years really successfully that is specifically, developed and designed and applied for change management. So it's legacy displayed for change management. I thought that was the that was a phenomenal fit with the simulation because it was taking the students through a learning journey with very different types of methodologies. A digital simulation that is very sophisticated and it works really well. It was taking them, building the foundation on the the understanding of change management through that, and then moving on to legacy display, but doing legacy display specifically geared towards chance. I did that a number of different ways. And to give you more ammunition on what to think about it, for those of you who are already familiar with legacy display, What we did is instead of using the case method, for example, once we had gone through change theory, we actually used the real time change application of legacy display to analyze business cases, and to sort of come up with solutions for the transformation and change management processes for those companies as well. And then, of course, again, you can have the building block around assessment that you want if you are in an educational environment. So that is that for today, guys. I'm gonna bring it back to James, and, hopefully, that gives you plenty of ammunition to to discuss in the breakout rooms because, again, I'll summarize it again. My very spontaneous talk today was about really just encouraging you to use your toolkit. You have a lot of words in our house. Mix up those ingredients on the cocktail shaker, as best you can because the the poll I think the possibilities with the simulation are endless. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much, Laura. That's, consistent themes here around, like, working back from client, from from learner needs, building blocks, Legos again. Thank you. Thank you so much. Moving on to Frank, Spongering context. Alrighty. Thank you, and welcome everybody. First of all, a big thank you to James and the EP team for having me today. Lyle, I love how you've already talked about Spark. I'm gonna continue that discussion. And and, Laura, how you use this, for some design thing for for different formats for delivering this. And and, you know, it's funny. Fourteen years ago if we can go to the next slide, please. Fourteen years ago, I started, I became certified in experience change, for my undergrad and MBA classes. I was teaching in change management. And, you know, through the years, I've tried, I think as Laura was just showing, many different formats for using this very impactful simulation. What became really clear to me is finding the right context for change within a classroom. And and today, as I use experience change, with executive education clients, I I think I found something. And so why? What have why did I wanna find something? Next slide, please. I think because for lots of us and our clients that we work with, change is confusing. We all know that. Right? Many questions get asked, puzzled looks on people's faces, all of the above. And we also know, next slide, please, that we're gonna come up and face resistance. Now all of this is sounding very familiar with the experience change simulation as you all know. Right? So how can I spark the context for the participants to play this simulation? Next slide, please. And what I came across, I think what Lyle was speaking about earlier, even though he was thinking about these in application for design thinking, I was thinking about this as something for the change side of things. And I found this particular episode called the North Wind and the Sun. And and when doing this live, typically, I find this is about a twenty five minute, experience, that does a few things. It goes anywhere from examples about Steve Jobs to an actual FBI hostage negotiator, to even drone package delivery. Right? It covers all kinds of different things, all while asking people three questions. K? First question. What if we? Second, how do we? And third, how would you? All great questions. Right? Or understanding the context of the simulation they are about to play after we do the spark episode. So these questions, next slide, please, lead to a discussion around a postmortem. Sorry. A premortem, which, like, most people are used to having postmortems, or I'm introducing them through this episode into a premortem, which comes which a fabulous handout for people to use, at their desk in their job in real time. And what's beautiful about this is that the feedback that I've received from many, many participants who've gone through this after I've started to use Spark is to say that they really wanted to get the this this really sparked their idea in terms of the experience while they were playing the simulation. The three questions they had to ask, the whole idea while they were playing the simulation. The three questions they had to ask, the whole idea of conducting a pre mortem, right, was was so impactful on them that it got them to look at how they chose their tactics so differently than how they may have previously. Right? And so I see this as a huge win. You know, we're here today to talk about and share, as you've already heard from two amazing people, innovative learning experiences. And, really, for me, this has really turned the table for me because it gives people that extra value in terms of how they can connect with this particular very difficult topic of change as you can all appreciate. So I think that, you know, for me, I'm I'm very thankful for this. I think as as Lyle said, you know, this product was was developed, for during the the pandemic. It's meant to be done virtually, found ways to do it as effectively in person, and so it can work in either format. I think it's really what it is that you're comfortable with and what your clients are looking for. Next slide, please. So I'm I'm just mindful of time and wanna keep us to, time for us our breakouts and for one last speaker. This is my contact information if anybody ever wants to reach out and, ask more about this. That's it for me. Thanks, James. Great. Thank you, Frank. That was great. And, again, another example, like, what Lau was saying upfront where two experiences that we could never have imagined putting together when we initially created them, and there's it's this community. It's, like, innovating and seeing kind of peanut butter and chocolate and putting it together, and it's delicious. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next up, Jason. Over to you, Jason. No struggle in the learning how to get people to enjoy suffering for knowledge. I'm gonna stop sharing here, Jason. Thank you, James. Type true if you believe that, struggle is an important part of learning or false if you disagree. In the chat, do that now, and we'll get started. Alright. I got a couple of truths. Thank you. Number one, and somebody will help me by typing these out in the chat as well. Inoculate people against struggle. This principle comes from cognitive behavioral therapy in the eighties. There's over two hundred studies showing in multiple context that when we prepare people to struggle, they're better able to do it. How do we do that at EP? We tell them that this is going to be exhilaratingly difficult. We tell them that, one out of three teams will probably not meet their, hoped for objectives in the change program or that creative work is very different and we're switching mindsets and this is always a challenge. Along with that, at the beginning, we want to make sure that people know that psychological safety does not equals comfort. That you are here not it's we you can be safe and uncomfortable at the same time. So we prepare people that they're going to work and they're gonna get feedback. And I find that if I offer feedback at the beginning and say, folks, hands up if you're cool getting some feedback on the work, ninety percent of people will put their hands up because high achievers want feedback. And once I've given that gotten that permission from them, I often get the feedback that you didn't give me enough feedback. So, help people prepare for psychological safety. Let them know it's not gonna be comfortable and get some permission for feedback. So somebody's gonna write that one down. That's number two. Number three, halftime reviews. Often, our work is very, very challenging. For example, in our brainstorms, in design thinking, people are confused. They have to draw on stickies. They have to talk to others. They have to stand up. There's about fifteen different things going wrong. And in about five minutes in, I am poking my eye out with a fork because they are putting up the worst ideas on the planet. Like, they're just terrible ideas. And I'm like, this is awful. But then I hold a halftime pause. Check-in folks. Great job. You're drawing things on the stickies. You're doing this. You're doing that. Now let's make it a little bit harder. That's when I offer them the challenges. What can you do that's illegal, immoral, or unhealthy in your brainstorm? And once they have that, I find the brainstorm start to get better. So don't try and get everything right when you kick people off for an activity. Make it progressively more difficult, and intuitively many of us know this. Now, somebody's gonna write these down. So that one is halftime check-in. Please write that in the thing. Also, my challenge to you as you're going through this very brief session, there's way more ways to help people get used to struggle. So maybe start thinking about the techniques that you already use, and you practice them on your children. So don't be afraid to use them with adults because you've already tried them out. Number four. Somebody will write eighty five percent. Eighty five percent is the optimal correct rate for performance on a task when learning. So, conversely, fifteen percent is the optimal error rate. If people are getting it wrong thirty to fifty percent of the time, you have to make the task easier. Otherwise, they're going to give up. And interestingly, this principle also applies to, machine learning systems as well. So it's kind of universal across artificial and real intelligence. So if people are getting it right all the time, make it harder. If people are getting it wrong more than fifteen percent of the time, make it easier. And I'll start using prompts. So remember, our first stage in the change management process is understand. Once we've understand, what might we wanna do second? We probably have to do it with a team, and then they think about it. As long as people are struggling to recall things, those will be locked in their memories. Number five. Thank you, John. You wrote eighty five percent. I appreciate that. Number five. Normalize error, and that's, that's a picture of a thumb. My drawings are not very good and that is a gift to you. Maybe you think it's something else, but it also makes it cool for other people to do bad drawings, especially when they have some energy or anxiety about doing bad drawings. So the phrases I use, this is commonly wrong or that's an intuitive answer or I got this wrong when I'd started or I model being wrong. So that's it. Five tips for getting it right, and my watch says, we're done. Thank you. Thank you, Jason. Thank you. Alright. So we're gonna head into some breakouts here in in a moment. So an opportunity for us to meet in smaller groups, connect and share with one another. This is a high powered group. Like, there's tons of experience, expertise in this virtual room that we're in today. Everyone here has interesting and cool experiences to share. We wanna create an opportunity for you to do that. So a few conversation starters here. Lyle, Laura, and Frank, and Jason have generously shared and, in the process, provoked and energized in my brain anyways. So if there are ideas or personal experiences coming out of those talks that you'd like to riff on, have a conversation around that. Or do you have a favorite design or exercise or approach that you'd be excited to share with others? Or or what emerging trends or practices are you incorporating into your workshop? So please feel free to let the conversation flow to where there is energy in your group. So we're gonna take about twenty like, time check. Yeah. About twenty minutes in breakouts before returning back and then sharing a couple of highlights more broadly. That's not a ton of time. Twenty minutes. We're gonna be in rooms of about eight to ten folks, so we'll start with very, very quick round of introductions if we could. And there'll also be, an EPT member or two in the breakouts who will be capturing some best practice and insights from the discussion. Our biggest question is what did you like most about each of us? Feel free to put that in the chat or or go with James' much better question. That's a great question, Jason. It's Jason's shirt. Well, I hope you had some fun there. I'm meeting some some fellow facilitators and, and picking up some new ideas to try. We have a few minutes before we wrap here. And, what if if anybody has a quick story they'd like to share? If, you know, if there's something in energy of energy in your room that you'd like to share more broadly with the group or so open it up to our, speakers as well. Is there if there an observation that you you've made over the course of, of today as well? James, I'm just gonna jump in on behalf of all the speakers. We all wanted to know what you were talking about in your breakout rooms. So this is not optional, people. We wanna hear from every one of you in your breakout rooms. Pick a speaker, start talking. I'll just quickly say I'm new to the team, but I I felt all from the general session and the breakouts, a strong sense of community, belonging, and mutual respect. And that's a nice nice group to associate with in my opinion. Hi. I'm Natalie. I'm from Cogeco. One of the subjects actually that we probably discussed the most in our, breakout room, was the building blocks or the Lego bricks or whatever. At Cogeco, we call it the bite size, training. So in our, in our organization, we're trying to go more and more with that. And, and I think it resonated in the group, that long, long, long trainings are less and less, suitable for, organizations. I'm and I'm I'm yeah. I'm talking about corporate training. I was I wanna add to, what Pete said about our subgroup. I we did really have that that level of respect with substance too. I I really liked it. We got into some stuff that was, about real situations, with the respect, with some challenge. It was a good little session. Great. Thank you, Bruce. Beth? We had a fun discussion about the shock factor of what kind of audience is right to start right in on the simulation, like you mentioned, with the professor and where it might not be as effective. So we had a really nice conversation about the the the right time and the right kind of delivery entry mode. And, Beth, if I could, could you you had you've got some lovely phrases there. Something about the the the thickness of the armor of the participant depending. We basically said the, the more senior leaders kind of need the shock factor more. So for me, it's like the thicker the armor, the more you think you're doing something right, the more you need the, suggestion that there's more to learn. Which is, like, a big theme of your talk, Jason, as well, which is, around failure and and giving people that struggle. Alright. It's almost top of the hour here. Any last thoughts folks would like to share before we wrap? Wanna be respectful of your time? Pete, I see someone asking for the rubber band activity. Do you think you can do it in one minute? At the start of a training class, I walk around and hand everyone a rubber band, look them in the eye, and and say, Laura, this is your rubber band. And I asked the team, what is it? They say it's a rubber band. What does it do? They said it holds things together or you can shoot flies with it or the person next to you. We start to get some levity around and say, how does it work? And then someone says or if they don't say I volunteer, well, it it only works when you stretch it. Right? So when you stretch it, you create stress. Now what does that have to do with you as a learner? The only way you're gonna learn is if you stretch yourself, create a little tension. So if you're not stretching yourself, you're not creating any value, the rubber band doesn't have any purpose. And then with that, it sets the tone. And as I go throughout the day, the training, I'll thank people for stretching, and we'll hold up a rubber band and give that a little cognition about the rubber band and their behaviors. So feel free. Rubber bands are cheap, and they work. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Pete. That's great. And a great way to to whisk us off today. Like, I take Lyle and Laura and Frank and Jason for generously preparing and sharing some of your experiences with us today. Thank you. And a huge thanks to all of you for your spirit of generosity and sharing. Thank you for the amazing work you do and for inspiring us and for pushing us and for challenging us. We are incredibly lucky to do the work that we do with the incredible people who are here that we get to work with. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you have any feedback in terms of how we can improve this today besides the facilitator, and you can include that feedback too, please, we're gonna we're gonna send out a a form, immediately after this call ends. And so we'd love to get any feedback that you might have. Our next event's gonna happen in the fall, and so, that will, details on that to to to come soon. And, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. Hope you have a great rest of your day and hope to see you all, if not in person, virtual, soon. Cheers. Take care.